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	<title>Comments on: Kil&#8217;Jaeden Is Dead; PvE Competition</title>
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	<link>http://www.lumethemad.com/2008/05/31/kiljaeden-is-dead-pve-competition/</link>
	<description>A WoW Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Gwaendar</title>
		<link>http://www.lumethemad.com/2008/05/31/kiljaeden-is-dead-pve-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwaendar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lumethemad.com/?p=60#comment-55</guid>
		<description>As an aside, I wonder how well the 10/25 will really play out in the end. Now more than with TBC, picking 25 instead of 20 may prove an organizational issue. You can run two 10-men teams to gear up and then mold them into a 20-men easier than running a third 10-men team and benching players, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an aside, I wonder how well the 10/25 will really play out in the end. Now more than with TBC, picking 25 instead of 20 may prove an organizational issue. You can run two 10-men teams to gear up and then mold them into a 20-men easier than running a third 10-men team and benching players, IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Lume the Mad on Sunwell Plateau clear &#124; Altitis</title>
		<link>http://www.lumethemad.com/2008/05/31/kiljaeden-is-dead-pve-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Lume the Mad on Sunwell Plateau clear &#124; Altitis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lumethemad.com/?p=60#comment-54</guid>
		<description>[...] the other end of the gamer spectrum, Lume the Mad offers his perspective on reaching the end of the Burning Crusade, and the meta-game represented by the world first [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the other end of the gamer spectrum, Lume the Mad offers his perspective on reaching the end of the Burning Crusade, and the meta-game represented by the world first [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lume</title>
		<link>http://www.lumethemad.com/2008/05/31/kiljaeden-is-dead-pve-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Lume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lumethemad.com/?p=60#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Same argument, different premises. It&#039;s nice to know I&#039;m not the only one who thinks this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same argument, different premises. It&#8217;s nice to know I&#8217;m not the only one who thinks this.</p>
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		<title>By: ApathyInc</title>
		<link>http://www.lumethemad.com/2008/05/31/kiljaeden-is-dead-pve-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>ApathyInc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 15:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lumethemad.com/?p=60#comment-46</guid>
		<description>It takes an incredible amount of time to produce raid instances that can (and will) be cleared within a few days. Time, effort, and results do not match, and nowhere is this more exemplified in destruction. It takes a few minutes to destroy a building that took years to build. It takes a few minutes to eat a dinner that took hours of labor to prepare. Yet we don&#039;t whine about that. That&#039;s life.

Blizzard simply cannot make raiding content fast enough because they are focused on quality. They have to be, otherwise you&#039;ll end up with things like Molten Core on one end of the extreme or Naxxramas on the other end of it. Make things too wonderful for hard-core raiders and you get the monetary disaster that was Kel&#039;thuzad&#039;s Citadel. How many of these top-end guilds remember Naxxramas with pride and heavy nostalgia? That was when Blizzard catered too much to our (and their) kind, and they learned their lesson very well. Rightfully so, in my opinion.

Although Nihilum is bitter about it (I find it hard to believe this anger vented at the content is caused by nothing more than disappointment at it being so &quot;short.&quot; Aren&#039;t we acting a bit like a sore loser, Nihilum? Nihilum had high praises for Black Temple whereas other guilds thought it was a pushover instance. Nihilum dominated Black Temple. Those opinions were not unclouded by such achievements.), I can&#039;t but help think Sunwell has been a tremendous success for the hardcore-casual raiders such as yourself, people who don&#039;t raid volumes during the week and strive for world firsts. Most raiding guilds are like yours and mine. We raid in one week what amounts to little more than a day in the life of a guild like SK Gaming and Nihilum. I admit I do get frustrated by the slow pace sometimes, but in the long run it actually makes things more satisfying. I have more time to work on my alts, to savor the content, and to enjoy WoW Life, if you will. I want to beat Illidan eventually, but not tomorrow. Tomorrow just get frustrating and boring after that. Granted, I&#039;m not Nihilum, and they have different needs and motivations than I do--I couldn&#039;t care less about world or even server firsts--but still, there is something to be said for being patient in raiding.

I am not one to prophesy, but I have incredibly high hopes for the 10-man/25-man differentiation in WotLK. It is catering to the heart of raiding, which is, despite appearances and statements to the contrary, *not* Nihilum, SK Gaming, the late Death and Taxes, or any other high-end sponsored raiding guild. The heart of raiding is those guilds who are slowly but surely progressing through Karazhan, SSC, TK, and starting to wade through BT and Nyjal. The heart of the raiding is the hardcore-casual guild, a guild that takes the content seriously enough that they want to get through it before the expansion, but won&#039;t break their backs to do it. A few days of wiping on Teron or Al&#039;ar won&#039;t bother them that much. Just as the heart of baseball is the hometown teams, the ones the plebeians play and enjoy for fun and recreation, so is the heart of raiding: while those hometown teams exist the sport will endure, no matter who takes the World Series title this year. The major leagues exist to serve those hometown teams, to give them something to look up and aspire to, not vice-versa. This is what many high-end raiding guilds today neither understand nor remember, hence all the despicable hatred for the &quot;scrubs&quot; and those who didn&#039;t beat Vashj and Kael before 2.4. By splitting the content into 10-man/25-man raids, I hope Blizzard will succeed in making raiding all the more fun and enjoyable for our kind, the kind that keeps the heart of raiding pumping.

I&#039;m off to work. I hope to get to Sunwell one day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It takes an incredible amount of time to produce raid instances that can (and will) be cleared within a few days. Time, effort, and results do not match, and nowhere is this more exemplified in destruction. It takes a few minutes to destroy a building that took years to build. It takes a few minutes to eat a dinner that took hours of labor to prepare. Yet we don&#8217;t whine about that. That&#8217;s life.</p>
<p>Blizzard simply cannot make raiding content fast enough because they are focused on quality. They have to be, otherwise you&#8217;ll end up with things like Molten Core on one end of the extreme or Naxxramas on the other end of it. Make things too wonderful for hard-core raiders and you get the monetary disaster that was Kel&#8217;thuzad&#8217;s Citadel. How many of these top-end guilds remember Naxxramas with pride and heavy nostalgia? That was when Blizzard catered too much to our (and their) kind, and they learned their lesson very well. Rightfully so, in my opinion.</p>
<p>Although Nihilum is bitter about it (I find it hard to believe this anger vented at the content is caused by nothing more than disappointment at it being so &#8220;short.&#8221; Aren&#8217;t we acting a bit like a sore loser, Nihilum? Nihilum had high praises for Black Temple whereas other guilds thought it was a pushover instance. Nihilum dominated Black Temple. Those opinions were not unclouded by such achievements.), I can&#8217;t but help think Sunwell has been a tremendous success for the hardcore-casual raiders such as yourself, people who don&#8217;t raid volumes during the week and strive for world firsts. Most raiding guilds are like yours and mine. We raid in one week what amounts to little more than a day in the life of a guild like SK Gaming and Nihilum. I admit I do get frustrated by the slow pace sometimes, but in the long run it actually makes things more satisfying. I have more time to work on my alts, to savor the content, and to enjoy WoW Life, if you will. I want to beat Illidan eventually, but not tomorrow. Tomorrow just get frustrating and boring after that. Granted, I&#8217;m not Nihilum, and they have different needs and motivations than I do&#8211;I couldn&#8217;t care less about world or even server firsts&#8211;but still, there is something to be said for being patient in raiding.</p>
<p>I am not one to prophesy, but I have incredibly high hopes for the 10-man/25-man differentiation in WotLK. It is catering to the heart of raiding, which is, despite appearances and statements to the contrary, *not* Nihilum, SK Gaming, the late Death and Taxes, or any other high-end sponsored raiding guild. The heart of raiding is those guilds who are slowly but surely progressing through Karazhan, SSC, TK, and starting to wade through BT and Nyjal. The heart of the raiding is the hardcore-casual guild, a guild that takes the content seriously enough that they want to get through it before the expansion, but won&#8217;t break their backs to do it. A few days of wiping on Teron or Al&#8217;ar won&#8217;t bother them that much. Just as the heart of baseball is the hometown teams, the ones the plebeians play and enjoy for fun and recreation, so is the heart of raiding: while those hometown teams exist the sport will endure, no matter who takes the World Series title this year. The major leagues exist to serve those hometown teams, to give them something to look up and aspire to, not vice-versa. This is what many high-end raiding guilds today neither understand nor remember, hence all the despicable hatred for the &#8220;scrubs&#8221; and those who didn&#8217;t beat Vashj and Kael before 2.4. By splitting the content into 10-man/25-man raids, I hope Blizzard will succeed in making raiding all the more fun and enjoyable for our kind, the kind that keeps the heart of raiding pumping.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m off to work. I hope to get to Sunwell one day.</p>
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